Join me, Kathy Brooks, on a chilling journey as we explore the lives, lies, and devious crimes of Lori Vallow and Chad Daybell in this riveting episode of Afterglow. Lori Vallow's friendship with Serena Sharp and the other women in her "casting out circle" are at the forefront of the investigation into the missing children, JJ Vallow and Tylee Ryan. Detective Moffett was able to put information together to help solve this investigation. He was on a mission to find Lori Vallow's children, Tylee Ryan and JJ Vallow. For over 3 years now I have found myself drawn into the bizarre world of Lori Vallow and Chad Daybell and their Idaho Cult associates.
Hear about Lori and Chad, as well as the strange beliefs they held that strayed from the traditional LDS church doctrine. Delve into the complexities of their legal case, the upcoming preliminary hearing, and the involvement of multiple jurisdictions. Uncover the truth behind the prayer groups and connections central to this dark and tangled web of deceit.
As a one-woman operation, your support and patience are invaluable to me in navigating the challenges of producing this podcast. Your continued engagement and donations make the tireless work behind the scenes worthwhile. So, thank you for joining me on this enthralling journey, and stay tuned for more updates on the chilling story of Lori Vallow, Chad Daybelll, and the Idaho Cult. Stay safe, and keep listening.
Join me, Kathy Brooks, on a chilling journey as we explore the lives, lies, and devious crimes of Lori Vallow and Chad Daybell in this riveting episode of Afterglow. Lori Vallow's friendship with Serena Sharp and the other women in her "casting out circle" are at the forefront of the investigation into the missing children, JJ Vallow and Tylee Ryan. Detective Moffett was able to put information together to help solve this investigation. He was on a mission to find Lori Vallow's children, Tylee Ryan and JJ Vallow. For over 3 years now I have found myself drawn into the bizarre world of Lori Vallow and Chad Daybell and their Idaho Cult associates.
Hear about Lori and Chad, as well as the strange beliefs they held that strayed from the traditional LDS church doctrine. Delve into the complexities of their legal case, the upcoming preliminary hearing, and the involvement of multiple jurisdictions. Uncover the truth behind the prayer groups and connections central to this dark and tangled web of deceit.
As a one-woman operation, your support and patience are invaluable to me in navigating the challenges of producing this podcast. Your continued engagement and donations make the tireless work behind the scenes worthwhile. So, thank you for joining me on this enthralling journey, and stay tuned for more updates on the chilling story of Lori Vallow, Chad Daybelll, and the Idaho Cult. Stay safe, and keep listening.
Please note that this podcast contains information regarding sensitive events, including domestic violence, assault and abuse, as well as other triggering events such as murder. This podcast is intended for mature audiences. When Alice jumped down the rabbit hole, she immediately regretted her decision. A rabbit hole is a metaphor for something that transports someone into a troubling, surreal state or situation. Welcome to Afterglow, unveiling the Idaho Cult. This podcast will take you down the deepest of rabbit holes. As it unfolds, the story is so compelling, so bizarre and so genius. It's impossible to look the other way. Chad DeBal and Lori Vallow were dedicated, in the most horrible way, to an ideology that should only be fiction. Instead, their ideology put them behind bars. Join us as we explore the lives, lies and diabolical crimes of Lori Vallow and Chad DeBal. I'm your host, kathy Brooks. Please follow and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. This is episode 18 of season 2, serena Sharp.
Speaker 1:Now, before we get started, i just wanted to remind you all that this is a one-woman show. It's just me. I'm the editor, producer, investigator, researcher and the audio, and it's not easy to fit in an entire podcast into my normal life. I'm a registered nurse, as I said before, i work 40 hours a week as a case manager and I also have a side job, so this is not for profit. I'm not making money on this. This is literally for me to share all the research I've done on this case, because I started following the Lori Vallow Chad DeBal case in January of 2020. This case didn't even start hitting the news until December of 2019. So enough of me.
Speaker 1:But if you would like to help keep the show going, those donations are so valuable to me. So what's very valuable to me is giving me the five star rating. If you've been with me this long, you appreciate the show I'm sure you do, and I really appreciate you so much. Thank you. Also. This is now being uploaded to my YouTube channel. Okay, so let's go ahead and get started, and this is April 15, 2020. If Nathan Moffat is now visiting Lori, melanie Gibb, jason Miles, print Serena Sharp She is one of the three girls that knows stuff that was going on and was part of this casting out circle of people. So that's what this episode's about, and I will go ahead and let that get started right now. Thank you again.
Speaker 2:April 15, 2020 at 1650 hours. Detective Moffat, i'm going to be speaking with Serena Sharp. Hi, thank you. How's it going, are you, serena? I'm Detective Mahfow with China PD. You have a couple of minutes to talk. Sure, okay, i'm here to talk to you about Horry Valow. Oh, okay, you want to sit down or come up here?
Speaker 3:We're in the middle of lots of projects.
Speaker 2:I think everybody is, because that's what being locked in your house does.
Speaker 3:Yes, it does.
Speaker 2:Some TV. Okay hold on.
Speaker 3:Sure, i think most of my kids are in the back, so I'm just a friend. Do you want to come? Whatever you prefer.
Speaker 2:Yeah, come on in. I love the giant sliding glass door. That's awesome. Do you want to come?
Speaker 3:Yeah, excuse me, oh, no problem, dining room table work, that works. Could, you remind me, your name. Detective Nathan Mahfow. I'm with China Police Department, Okay So.
Speaker 2:That's right. Yeah, i just love Christina And Nicole's house, so, yeah, so I'm kind of How is he? I'm kind of following up. Let me start with how you know, lori, okay, i'm not worried to Just a question.
Speaker 3:We need you because I've never met anybody. No, no, it's just that I'm not worried.
Speaker 2:Just a question We need you because I've never met anybody. No, no, if you want to sit in, you're more than welcome to.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I just wanted to invite you in case you wanted to. Oh, no, I.
Speaker 2:No thanks, No problem.
Speaker 3:You're not the only one. No, if you need me, i'm happy to just pay for that. I'd have to do it, okay.
Speaker 2:So how'd you meet Lori?
Speaker 3:So I met Lori through Symmetral Friends. So Jason Mao is a friend of mine. Okay, He came out and we were living in Connecticut at the time by the time. So, Okay, I met Jason because I needed him to be a keynote speaker for a big function that I was doing out there for, like, youth ages 12, 18. Okay, For a regional event. So he came out. We got to be great friends. He just stayed with my family for that week.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 3:And then we went to New England and he's like you remind me of my friend named Melanie, Last name Gib Gib. Yeah, Melanie Gib, And he's like you should connect with her because we were doing a lot of the same things, just in separate places.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 3:Okay, So I gave her a call and we just became instant friends and How long when was that about? Here it goes. Hold on a second Look at the calendar.
Speaker 2:Okay, So how funny because you met Lori, so once separate. But then Nicole has known Lori for like 10 years, So just kind of small world thing.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Okay, So I met. Let's see This year's 2020, 2019, 2018. So this is 2018 that I met. Jason and then probably fall of 2018. September is when I met Melanie over the phone.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 3:And then she said you should come to preparing a people, because I've been into food storage and preparation and all that kind of stuff for years.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 3:And we just became friends over the phone. She's like and I was going to stay with Jason, but she's like no, come with me, then we don't have to worry about drivers, and you know, because, jason, i'm not going to be alone with another man because I'm married. Okay, so it was just easier. Gotcha, she was sweet and picked me. It's just like I'll pick you up. You don't need to rent a car, just I'll pick you up from the airport, and so Was that here The preparing of people conference here?
Speaker 3:Okay, So we ended up. So I stayed with Melanie that weekend and she drove me to a friend's house to stay and it was Lori's house. I had never met Lori before I walked through the door or heard of her.
Speaker 2:So you stayed at Lori's house, not at Melanie's, correct? Okay? Was Melanie living here at the time? Was she in Salt Lake Or was she in Utah? Okay, but you just happened to. Did you stay at Lori's? Did Melanie stay with you guys at Lori's? Yeah, okay.
Speaker 3:Yeah Yeah, there's a bunch of us that stayed there, gotcha, Do you need to know the names, or Not?
Speaker 2:necessarily, unless it ties into kind of the big picture of things.
Speaker 3:I'm just trying to get a history of it, okay.
Speaker 2:Okay, did he stay at Lori's also? Yeah.
Speaker 3:So that's the first time I met any or even heard of any of those people.
Speaker 2:When would you say that was? Would you say that was 2018? Like fall of 2018? November, okay.
Speaker 3:I would say I don't know if it's still in my income.
Speaker 2:And is that when you met Chad Mm-hmm.
Speaker 3:Okay, yep.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 3:Yeah, So first or One of the weekends in November before Thanksgiving.
Speaker 2:Okay, that's helpful. Did Chad and Lori know each other before then?
Speaker 3:I assumed they did. Okay, i met everybody for the first time ever, except for Jason Mal, okay, so I was pretty overwhelmed that weekend Gotcha With everything. Okay, i'd never been to Arizona since I was a kid and I had come to visit. Okay, i didn't Like, for some reason, meeting Melanie face to face, so Gotcha, i was like When you meet a whole bunch of people. Yes, you're overloaded When everybody knows each other just kind of wide-eyed.
Speaker 2:Okay, so I guess where does. So you meet everybody kind of for the first time in November of 18.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but I'm there for the conference. Okay, so we go, and that was for the Preparing of People conference. Yeah, Okay, and I helped, like we go early. Oh gosh, if you need me to know specific dates, i think I flew in on Thursday. We went to the temple Thursday night. Friday She had people over at her house for like a morning side type of thing, okay. And then Friday night we went early to Preparing of People conference to help set up.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 3:Because Melanie's was really tight with the people running the program.
Speaker 2:Okay, and that was your first time even becoming involved or seeing Preparing of People My first time. Yes, yeah, yeah, if I got associated with the Council or the no-transcript, your relationship with Lori and kind of all the collectin' ball like they.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So I mean they seem nice and At the time Knowing then that Chad was married to somebody else, did there seem to be like an inappropriate relationship already building with them, or I think that didn't even cross my mind ever. Okay, not once.
Speaker 3:Okay, in retrospect maybe I can see some things that, but like a car ride alone, just because I wouldn't do that.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:But that's.
Speaker 2:But no interaction with everybody else.
Speaker 3:No, it was like always combined and I had no idea Other than that, like because they were both married, So like that thought just didn't even enter. Okay, so Coming naive, and it probably was, but I just didn't see anything. So From.
Speaker 2:It's my understanding that it was right around that time that they met. So I think their relationship, their friendship or whatever you want to call it at that time was still fairly new. So I don't think you.
Speaker 3:Right From my understanding, they had met at the previous.
Speaker 2:Maybe, and maybe it was just a couple months beforehand or something like that. Yeah, so it was somewhere right around the fall of 2018 is my understanding of when they met.
Speaker 3:So when did you?
Speaker 2:move down here.
Speaker 3:Just recently, okay, so I flew out here to look for houses in July, okay.
Speaker 2:Had Charles already. The whole thing with Charles already happened. Yes, okay.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so I moved down, we moved down here. We came to House Hunt at the end of July and then we moved down as a family. My kids came with me a few days later and then I'm trying to think time-wise And then I had to fly back up, finish packing up the house. So technically we actually closed up this house like September, right after or right before.
Speaker 2:Did you stay somewhere in the interim before you moved here? Did you move directly from there to this house in September?
Speaker 3:We stayed at Marribee and Beacon, right by Queen Creek High School. Okay, the golf course There's like a little. There was a rental home in our left-wing.
Speaker 2:We stayed in for a month On Las Colinas, the golf course, the golf course on Rittenhouse.
Speaker 3:Still not. okay, it's bad at this. Elzworth Loom. Yeah, if you make the left at Elzworth Loom, there's a whole bunch of houses there.
Speaker 2:They kind of fly the high school behind it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, okay, i don't know what that golf course is called. Yeah, so we stayed there for one month. We moved in here, okay, so we stayed there for one month.
Speaker 2:We moved in here.
Speaker 3:We moved in here. We moved in here. We moved in here. We moved in here. We moved in here.
Speaker 2:So from the time that you met I guess met them to the time that you moved down here, did you have many more face-to-face interactions with Chad Lori and Just a couple, okay.
Speaker 3:So I went to the Preparing of People in February in Idaho, okay. And I stayed with my sister and went to Preparing of People, So stayed with my sister. We stayed in a hotel with all the Preparing of People for a couple of days. My sister did not go though, Okay, And then. So I saw Chad there. Lori was not there.
Speaker 2:Okay, lori wasn't at that conference.
Speaker 3:No, she was down there. So then we had a girls' weekend in March where I flew out here and that's where I met Christina and Nicole.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 3:And we worked at their warehouse because I love that kind of stuff And I've done international stuff like that on the opposite end, so I clicked with those two really fast.
Speaker 2:Okay, my pen is working, barely.
Speaker 3:So there's a bunch of girls for that weekend.
Speaker 2:Christina and Nicole. Then Yeah, Okay.
Speaker 3:And that's like a year ago, March, so just over a year ago.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 3:And then when I moved, so and that's the second time like I had seen Lori face-to-face, We had had some phone calls and stuff between us. And then, and something that all interchanges in texting, And with your interaction with Lori.
Speaker 2:I guess after this and kind of in the March and stuff, had you seen anything with the Chad, the relationship developer, progress or I was down in Connecticut So I didn't like and I was not like in the inner circle. if that's what you want to say. Did you do any of the podcasts with them?
Speaker 3:Yes, okay So when I came out in March, I did two podcasts.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 3:Yeah, all in one morning. It was Monday morning right before I left, so I did two podcasts.
Speaker 2:Because, again, i was friends with Jason and Yeah. I was at about the time that Jason was doing the podcast with them.
Speaker 3:Okay, Yeah, and Jason and I again were friends And that's so. They wanted me to come on and talk about how I met Jason and like how it went up there when he came and spoke to the youth.
Speaker 2:Okay, brouard verso occupation, violence and trauma or, obviously, we just sent podcasts right at the same time. Okay, you're, are you LDS? Okay, did you ever hear or see any of the Lori and Chad and maybe some of the other groups kind of way out of left field compared to the LDS church?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean there was some stuff from the beginning, a few things that aren't like aligned with straight church doctrine, that talked over the pulpit, but I wasn't concerned about anything until like that March. Okay, There was a couple of things like maybe there that I was a little uncomfortable with, but then afterwards just some things that they were saying are you LDS?
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 3:Any chance. Okay, like, for example, she was talking about not repenting and that we don't need to repent anymore And I'm like it says all for the Bible that we need to repent and come to God, like, and that that was a big trigger for me. They also at that about that time too. They she kind of cut me off as well. She said that I was all sorts of stuff. I'm sure you've got all the evidence for that.
Speaker 2:Is that when she said you were an able spirit or dark or whatever? Okay, which?
Speaker 3:I did not know at the time. I got really, really sick And it was. They told me that. They told me that Zulama was going to handle like me and just help me through it And I just kind of just stopped communicating with me but never told me why. Nobody, and Zulama didn't tell me this.
Speaker 2:Did you? what did you meet? When did you meet Zulama?
Speaker 3:At the first preparing of people in November.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 3:And we became good friends Like pretty fast. So I saw her again at the February one And we talked often. I probably talked more to her than anybody.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 3:But yeah, after the March one, they just said that I was afterwards like prideful and I was going to be turned evil, and I didn't know any of that, though, until just recently. Melanie Gibbs is the one who told me that in. January. Okay, so that was very hurtful to hear.
Speaker 2:But I had no idea. I'm not LDS, but I believe in the power of prayer And trust me when I say you don't need their prayers, okay.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but it was hurtful too. Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 3:You know what I mean. Yeah, I didn't understand what was going on And I just met people and I only met her twice, like in person And have somebody say, like treat you often. You know, there's a huge flip. That's been a huge switch, that's been flipped And you just don't understand why. And I thought it was because I was sick. And she said, like evil spirits are like attacking you, And I did know that. She did tell me that. That she said won't she say that there's a breach? and that I was being indoctrinated at night. That's what she told me. I thought, Oh dear. So like I tried to just get better and fix anything that I thought might be wrong in my life, which always got stuff to work on. So but then after that she went back to me and I guess that's when she said I was turning evil, My husband was evil And I didn't know she said that either, until Melanie told me.
Speaker 2:Okay Yeah, just this past January, okay Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yep.
Speaker 2:Knowing now, i guess, how much? how much of the investigation have you seen on the news or anything else like that, since this is progressed, yeah, and you're kind of aware of all the different things that we're investigating, looking, looking back on it, is there anything that you ever saw or heard that you go Oh, the police really should know that type thing, or that doesn't sit right, or, you know, maybe it just doesn't feel right, or is there anything like that that you saw? It's kind of sounds like she cuts you out kind of early, yeah.
Speaker 3:Which protection for me? And yeah, so I wasn't. I only had those two contacts before I moved here, and then, after I moved here, i saw her twice.
Speaker 2:You saw Lori twice. What was that?
Speaker 3:So I moved here in July, okay, and it was either Zulima or Lori and I can't remember, which said Hey, let's have a lunch. And so we met at, like all the girls, cafe Rio Cafe, because to me. Yes, thank you. Okay. So we met there for lunch And it was weird. Okay, i could just tell things were weird.
Speaker 2:Is that the lunch that the girls lunch that Alex was present on? Yes, okay, was that the first time that you met him?
Speaker 3:No, i had met him when I met Lori the first time. Okay, so in November, that's referring to people he came over.
Speaker 2:Okay, once a day Did you have much interaction with him. Anything that stands out about that interaction? I mean anything, no, okay, no, anything that you ever heard that we should know. It sounds like you're kind of on the periphery. Yeah, i was definitely. I was kind of in a state And thank heavens Right, i was really protective.
Speaker 3:I think it was the whole thing. No, it actually made moving here harder, but we just knew we were supposed to move here.
Speaker 2:So, regardless of It sounds like you have really good friends and you've seen it in Nicole. So everything happens for a reason, right?
Speaker 3:Yes, And they're amazing And my kids we're supposed to be here. My kids are amazing and they've had a good experience, so we're supposed to be here. That's great. That's been awesome.
Speaker 2:So the reason that I came to be, here to talk to you, hi Jared.
Speaker 3:Hi, jared, i'm Nate.
Speaker 2:Nice to meet you, nice to meet you. I don't know if you've seen any of this in the media and stuff, but this was a thing with that Chad was sent, sent Lori, and the names were blocked out because I didn't know how everybody knew each other and why. So one of these is Nicole and one, the other one is Christina, and then you and then obviously Melanie gave Jason Mao, and so no, absolutely.
Speaker 2:It's better from the beginning, so you can kind of get where they believe your history is and where everybody else's history is. So you know, chad is a writer, right? So they're basically writing a book of their story, with Chad being James and Lori being Elena. Ah, okay.
Speaker 3:That's what James and Elena is. Jenna, okay, yes, seven children and three daughters. So Lori's guardian angels? I don't recognize her, but I do recognize, like well, everybody's heard of kind of the good Melanie is her niece. I met her once really quick at that lunch. Oh, is this Christina and Nicole? Yeah, one of them.
Speaker 2:I don't remember which one was which, but yes.
Speaker 3:They did tell me that.
Speaker 2:Tell you which part All of this Do you know about, or when that was.
Speaker 3:She told me that I think it was March.
Speaker 2:Okay, march, when you were down, because that one was here, right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's when you came here. I've been before that, i don't think so But that was not.
Speaker 2:That was just for the girls weekend type thing, yeah, and not for a preparing the people conference. Correct, okay.
Speaker 3:Like, we went to the temple, we went out to lunch, we went and worked at Gathering Humanity and did service projects there, and I actually went two days to that.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 3:And just because that is my thing. So that's why I connected so well with Christina and Nicole.
Speaker 2:Okay, So anything that you can think of. I mean I know I don't know how much you've talked to, but both Christina, especially Christina, but then Nicole In hindsight they heard things that they're like, wow, that really didn't sit right, But sounds like you had limited contact with, or no contact with, Lori after March.
Speaker 3:So No, I did Remember. I said, when I moved here I saw her twice.
Speaker 2:Oh, okay, yeah, the lunch.
Speaker 3:Mm-hmm the lunch, And then she had some girls over to her house one night.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 3:Just shortly after that, and I think that was in July, because it was I was house hunting at that time, okay, and it might have been the very first part of August, like right around there. It was pretty close together.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 3:Within a week or two.
Speaker 2:But nothing that stood out, nothing that you heard.
Speaker 3:It's hard to separate kind of all the media on the press Okay, but I'm trying to think I was separated obviously by Miles, which was good, and then being ostracized as well. I think the only thing that concerned me was that March weekend when she was talking about her husband being And this was one of the red flags I was talking about for that March.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 3:Her husband was now, because I had met him in November. Charles, okay, and then, just briefly, i was like leaving when he was coming in.
Speaker 2:Okay, because I know he wasn't there When you were down at the conference.
Speaker 3:He wasn't there for most of the weekend. Okay, Until the end. So in March she was saying that he had been possessed by an evil spirit, but I think that's our go-to And that it was no longer Charles, that it was somebody else inside of his body And that they needed to get rid of. Like somehow we need She needed to cast him, she needed help casting the evil spirit out, or something like that. So, but zombie, that's what. Like it was a zombie is what we call it.
Speaker 2:They never talked about killing the zombie, though, right.
Speaker 3:No, that's casting it out like getting rid of the zombie, but not actually like killing his body.
Speaker 2:Yes, But like Removing the spirit, yes, okay.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah. And then somehow, like removing the spirit, like Charles was already gone, so I didn't know if that meant Charles would come back or the body would die or whatever. Okay, but yes, removing the spirit of Ned. I think it was Ned.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 3:But I thought that was a little uncomfortable with that whole thing, Like obviously that's a little out there, So a lot.
Speaker 2:Anything else you could think of?
Speaker 3:She talked to me in August, so that beginning of August, end of July, when I went to her house She told me that night because that's the first time I'd seen her since Charles had died. I just asked her like are you okay? Like what happened? Because I don't really like watching the news, I don't like the text.
Speaker 2:They screwed up most of the time. Yeah, what did she say happened?
Speaker 3:Like in her words.
Speaker 2:That you remember.
Speaker 3:Okay, so she told me that Charles came to get JJ.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 3:From. I think it was school, yeah, and when he was picking up, jj Tiley was there.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 3:And then she had Tiley take JJ up to the car And then he picked up a bat. Charles did, but her brother, alex is it Alex or Alex? Alex was there And Alex just shot and killed him. Okay, and I think she said shot him twice, is that right? Yeah, yeah. And then he shot and killed him And it was horrible. And he came at him with the bat and hit. I think he said he hit. No, charles hit Alex with the bat. And then Alex had to shoot him.
Speaker 2:Gotcha. So that's the story I got, but it sounds very much like that's the story she gave to police as well. So Very similar Yeah.
Speaker 3:She wasn't going to tell me anything. I mean, we weren't close at all And she thought I was going to turn evil, right?
Speaker 2:Okay, excuse me, i'm going to. I ran out of business cards, so I'm going to give you my desk number and then my email address. They have us working from home three out of four days a week, so emails best, because, like this is my office day And I don't think I'm back in the office until next Friday.
Speaker 1:So, email.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we work for 10 hour days and we're just kind of drawn off these days. And then I also did give. I gave Christiana and Nicole my phone number in case you lose it. I gave Nicole my email address. I forgot to give Christiana. I'm getting promoted and going back to the road in a couple of weeks, so I haven't figured. it's not worth ordering business cards.
Speaker 3:Good for you. Yeah, So what Melanie told me in February, so January. she gave me kind of the rundown of everything that happened. She said that I started asking too many questions last spring.
Speaker 2:I don't doubt that. I don't doubt that that Lori became cynical, i think. I think what worked well for them is they were looking for other people that bought into their outlandish beliefs And I think if you didn't buy in, you weren't a believer and I had this conversation with both Christiana and Nicole is all religion is based a lot on faith And if this is their religious views, how do you dispute or debunk it when it's their religious views? Right, and I think that's a lot of what this is. They were hunting for people like Zulema, very like minded people, that would follow this.
Speaker 3:Right And they start very much with things that are mainstream, yeah. And then when you kind of like, yes, i believe that, yes, i believe that, and then they kind of add to that, so it makes and some of it makes sense. When you like look at the scriptures You've never heard of before, but like, maybe Yeah. But then when I started, when I got sick and started asking questions, like and when they started talking about like repentance thing, like some things, just didn't sit well. And Melanie said that when I started asking questions is when they decided that I was going to turn dark and my husband already was.
Speaker 2:I think anybody who disagrees with their view is dark, and the more you disagree, the darker you are. The more you're in your wet in their way, the darker you are. So right, so So.
Speaker 3:What is going on with the investigation? Is she in custody?
Speaker 2:She's still in custody.
Speaker 3:In Idaho I don't know Okay. Was there a hearing with?
Speaker 2:that She has a preliminary hearing set for May 5th.
Speaker 3:May 5th.
Speaker 2:Yeah, i think it got delayed because of the COVID-19 and they're not gathering courts and stuff like that. I mean it's really kind of unprecedented where we're at in the country. Right, i did read a thing Idaho has had very, very few cases that they might open the state up a little bit sooner than everybody else. Okay, so, but last I heard it's May 5th and there's a lot of data to go on. I mean you look at, we have the Chandler PD case, we have the Gilbert PD case, we have the Rexford PD case, the missing kids, right, you have Fremont County Sheriff's Department case for CHATS-1. So there's, and then the FBI's have been involved in different facets. So it's a very big investigation and a lot of the investigations are ongoing.
Speaker 3:So And do you guys kind of work together?
Speaker 2:Do you think there's no Yeah we've been working together, i mean we've been working nonstop, and I think Gilbert's going out tomorrow to do more interviews and I did the three today.
Speaker 3:So is that? do you mind me asking, like because you're saying Gilbert and Chandler.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 3:There's why.
Speaker 2:Melanie Prudero's husband was shot at in October.
Speaker 3:Wow.
Speaker 2:So Yes, yeah, seriously, he was pulling up to his driveway and, for all practical purposes, in my opinion, alex was waiting there and Tiley's cheap and fired a shot at him. So I think we have enough. We would have if Alex hadn't passed away, we would have had enough to charge him for that already and a couple other different things. So you know you got a lot of different moving pieces on this but so you have, you know, six different jurisdictions with, when you put everything together with the feds and stuff that are all investing, investigating different pieces of this, but they're all interwoven. I mean it's all Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:Very much one rolling event of disaster following Chad Lori and So.
Speaker 3:It's so upsetting and shocking that somebody who seems because I seem normal when I met them just kind of like hearted, nice people, Like who opened up their homes so that a whole bunch of people, could you know, crash there from out of state, And I mean Well, my belief is that So I actually met JJ and Tiley that weekend.
Speaker 2:Yeah, my belief is they're kind of rolling after a self-fulfilling prophecy of whatever it is that they think benefits them right now And it's just, you know, it's just kind of gross, i mean, really, with the totality of the investigation and the things that we've uncovered and stuff. It's just, it's bizarre at best. Really, it's just, yeah, it's one of those things, it's tragic and at the end of the day there's still two kids missing.
Speaker 3:And the deaths that are like piling up are horrific.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 3:Because she has what? two husbands, yeah, i don't know. And then he's got his wife, who's seemingly out of the blue.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Weeks after she moved. There is what? No, i mean he was just saying I didn't even know she had moved.
Speaker 2:Yeah, she moved there on end of August, beginning of September, So so-.
Speaker 3:And then Alex passed away. Did I assume they have the corners, Cause I know-?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's still pending in autopsy Okay.
Speaker 3:I'm sure there's findings but probably not released yet It does appear that there might be an underlying.
Speaker 2:I'm saying Karma got him. It does appear that there might be some underlying medical conditions. It's still pending a lot of toxicology and stuff, but there's a very good chance that Alex's could be a natural death. Okay, So I'm not as convinced for everybody else. So Move kids, Yeah, Yeah.
Speaker 3:Cause she seemed like when I met her in November with her kids there, like she really left kids as far. I mean, i didn't even question that, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but hypothetically, you know, evil spirits get in the way, and you know And they're not her kids anymore, just like he wasn't her husband anymore. Yeah.
Speaker 3:And they're stopping her from doing whatever she thinks she needs to do.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:So what about? do you mind me asking about Zulema, Like where is she in all this? What happened to her? She's still at her house in Gilbert, as far as I know Is she.
Speaker 2:I mean, there's some things that we wanted to follow up with her on And she's retained an attorney, so Oh, really, yeah, so we actually have a call into her attorney right now to try to do a follow up interview on her. But yeah, oh my gosh, she was very much subscribed, a lot to.
Speaker 3:Lori and Chad's extreme views. So Yeah, I do know that Cause, like I said, we were close for a few months there. Yeah, Until I was ostracized about.
Speaker 2:It's a good group to get kicked off. Yes, So I'm gonna get kicked out of something That's a good group to get kicked out of. I'm just saying I know For sure.
Speaker 3:Do you have any questions for me? Like Not that I can think of.
Speaker 2:I mean it's you know. I know that, like Christina had heard, she was at Zulema's house during a prayer thing and Lori got way overboard And there were statements made. Now I'm more concerned about what you know firsthand. I wasn't, yeah. Yeah, so you know. At least I have some good background information and stuff. Yeah, like I said, we're just kind of following up and clearly JJ and Tylee aren't with you, correct? No, now haven't heard a scene from them in. You know quite a while.
Speaker 3:I wish.
Speaker 2:You know that's part of the thing is just making sure that we run down any and all acquaintances Right. You know, i would assume that every normal person when they see the national news about two kids missing, if the kids were there they would. Especially when Lori's in jail, they would go. Hey, i have the kids they're here to save it sound, and that hasn't happened, so-.
Speaker 3:I keep open, but like that is becoming more dim, yeah, as time goes on.
Speaker 2:Do you guys have?
Speaker 3:any hope that the kids are alive.
Speaker 2:Personally I don't. I mean, i just don't at this point, when you know Lori's been on the run since the day of a welfare check that she didn't know was coming and basically left town that day and hasn't looked back, was sitting in Hawaii, make statements to the attorney that the kids are fine, And now you're sitting in jail. If you left your kids with a reasonable, responsible adult and you're sitting in jail for abandonment, they truly are just with a responsible adult And you don't want to go all right, the jigs out. They're right here So and they haven't. So I just with that and a lot of other things that I just can't discuss. Obviously it makes us all depending investigations. I have very, very little hope. Slum to none. It's a little left town. So Thanks And that's. You know that's me personally, but. But so this is my contact information. If you happen to think you know tonight, next week, whenever like, oh man, i just forgot that I heard this or that, or whatever, just follow up, call me and leave me a voicemail or shoot me an email.
Speaker 3:And you're looking for first hand stuff Cause, like Melanie, told me a lot in January but you're not looking.
Speaker 2:We've interviewed Melanie. Yeah, myself and the Gilbert detective interviewed Melanie for a couple hours at the police department, and then they have since re-interviewed her a couple of times. So if that's.
Speaker 3:She called me after that and she said I think I need to tell you what's going on And I need to tell you what happened to you. And so she actually apologized, which was really sweet.
Speaker 2:But yeah, she's like. I just felt like.
Speaker 3:I need to go to police.
Speaker 2:I'm like yeah, You did a holy crap, absolutely. What is a good contact number for you? All right, yeah, so, like I said, if something comes up that you think of, just shoot me an email or give me a call. Yeah, i appreciate your time. Grab this.
Speaker 3:Yep, no problem.
Speaker 2:Everything I seem to leave out gets to the media one way or another. So the only blessing of this COVID thing is it's got this case out of the media for a little while, because it's out of sight on the mind? Yeah, because this is a difficult case at a lot of turns And, at the end of the day, there's a lot of victims attached to it. What we want to do is accountability, and accountability and justice for the victims of the case.
Speaker 3:And give you guys the space to figure it out too. Yeah, absolutely, But you have that time.
Speaker 2:I had an email leaked to the media last week that was all over national two weeks ago On that case All over national news. Yeah, and it was in a response to Charles had two adult sons. Their moms have been in contact. I'm like hey look, we're still working on it. I hope to get Lori indicted. She ran to the media with it. So you never know who's going to run to the media next, for whatever reason. So it just makes the job more difficult, yeah.
Speaker 2:So, I appreciate it. I appreciate it. I appreciate you trying to do this. Yeah, that's the case, and the bottom line in all of this is our job is to fight the truth. If she's done nothing wrong, or if she's done nothing wrong, there's a day. Yeah, absolutely All right. You guys, this is a big one. I have some Nicole and Christina. I've been an officer for over 20 years. I've been in homicide for 11 and 1 half. This is what I hope I ever see, or we ever see again. It's just beyond the reality of what the heck's going on here. So The important thing of soap opera Oh yeah, it's a total major TV movie. So thank you guys.
Speaker 3:Or the big extreme, maybe close Yeah absolutely Well, best of luck.
Speaker 2:Thank you very much. Yeah, in the public comes up, like I said. if you remember, it's just going to be called.
Speaker 2:Yeah, advice for us, if you think anything, absolutely, and there might be, because, like I said, i'm not going to take up my interview and then you'll go to the FBI under one agent that's not dead. The FBI isn't taking the investigation about their health and work straight. You have several different agencies, so it's kind of a clearinghouse. So they might have some more information or another question they want me to ask you. Ok, thank you.
Speaker 1:OK, that was it. I really appreciate you all. Thank you so much for being here. I will get my episodes up as fast as I can. Like I said, it's just a lot for me right now The summer, a lot going on. My kids live a couple hours away, So when I do go visit my grandkids and my kids, I can't work on a podcast on the weekend. So have some patience. Thank you very much. for those of you that have And other people, hopefully you understand that at this point that there's a lot going on in people's lives And this is not my full-time job. I wish it was. I would love for this to be my full-time job. I would get you guys an episode on the clock every week, like clockwork. So again, thank you And stay safe. Stay well. Bye-bye. Music playing.