Losing Hope. The Dark Corners of Lori Vallow's Beliefs

Get ready for a riveting journey into the mysterious world of Lori Vallow Daybell.  We're starting off with an exclusive interview with Nancy Jo, the woman who went on a date with Lori's estranged husband, Charles Vallow  on the eve of his untimely death. Nancy Jo recounts Charles's revelations about Lori's peculiar beliefs, including her fascination with angels and portals—a chilling insight into the mind of a woman wrapped up in a murder mystery.

As we move forward, we sift through a multitude of rumors, questions, and reactions from those around Lori. We'll be examining a heartfelt post by Melanie Boudreaux, a woman who faced personal struggles and accusations, yet chooses faith, love, and forgiveness. However, seems to have been fully immersed in the cult, their beliefs and might have even sacrificed her own children.  Finally, we deep dive into an email exchange between Lori and Kay Woodcock, Charles's sister, that uncovers even more chilling details. Sit tight as we navigate through the eerie happenings and uncanny revelations of the Lori Vallow DeVal saga.

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#LoriVallow #ChadDaybell #ZulemaPastenes #TyleeRyan #JJVallow #CharlesVallow #TammyDaybell #alexcox, #MelaniBoudreaux
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Sources for this episode
Nate Eaton, East Idaho News
Justin Lum, Fox 10 Phoenix
Annie Cushing Annielytics.com
Arizona Family

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Please note that this podcast contains information regarding sensitive events, including domestic violence, assault and abuse, as well as other triggering events such as murder. This podcast is intended for mature audiences. When Alice jumped down the rabbit hole, she immediately regretted her decision. A rabbit hole is a metaphor for something that transports someone into a troubling, surreal state or situation. Welcome to Afterglow, the unveiling of the Idaho Colt. This podcast will take you down the deepest of rabbit holes. As it unfolds, the story is so compelling, so bizarre and so heinous. It's impossible to look the other way.

Speaker 1: 0:48

Chad Daybell and Lori Vallow were dedicated, in the most horrible way, to an ideology that should only be fiction. Instead, their ideology put them behind bars. Join us as we explore the lives, lies and diabolical crimes of Lori Vallow and Chad Daybell. I'm your host, kathy Brooks. Please follow and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. Hello and welcome back. Thank you for being patient with me. I know it's been a couple weeks.

Speaker 1: 1:20

Today this will be the final episode of season two. I'm going to take the rest of the summer to finish my travels and get my life in order and other things that have going on, so we will come back with season three. Probably I'm going to say the beginning of October. You should get an episode dropped by then. I know a lot of things are going on in real time still, and I hope to catch up with real time. This case is going on and on and on, so I think we will get there. Chad Daybell still needs to go to trial and, of course, lori Vallow is going to be sentenced. So I'm just going to try to keep things in chronological order so everybody can get the whole story the best we can tell it.

Speaker 1: 2:08

So today this is episode 19 of season two, losing Hope. Before I begin, I want to thank you all. I've gotten some really nice, generous donations to my PayPal and buy me a coffee and, believe me, they are helping me keep the show going. So the small amount that I get is helping me pay for all the software and everything that I need in order to produce the show, so I really appreciate you. Thank you very much, everyone and anyone that has donated. I really appreciate you. Sometimes, on PayPal, it lets me send you back a message, and when it does, I do, and on Buy Me a Coffee, it lets me send you a message and I hope I've gotten everybody back. I hope I've responded to everybody that has donated and again, no donations too small.

Speaker 1: 3:00

So today I want to get into a little bit more of what was going on behind the scenes as things were unfolding, the kids still had not been found. Jj and Tiley had not been found. People were still hopeful that they would be found alive, but you get the sense that people were really losing hope. So today I want to go over two additional interviews that were done with the Chandler Police Department regarding this case. So you remember the last time we heard from Nicole, serena, christina, and there will be some more of that because they were interviewed again. There's an interview that I wanted to go over and I've only been able to find the actual written document from the police detective in Chandler. I can't find the recording, even though he says he recorded it. I have not been able to find that anywhere. So if I find it, we'll play it eventually, but I haven't been able to find it on any of the news sources or anything that have been released in these audios. So this is an interview.

Speaker 1: 4:15

Apparently, charles Vallow went on a date with a woman by the name of Nancy Jo and this was the night before he was murdered. He went on a date with this woman on July 10, 2019. They interviewed her on April 22, 2020 at 2.45 pm. It says I spoke with Nancy Jo, redacted her last name. Nancy Jo had gone on a date with Charles Vallow on 7.10.19, the night before he was shot and killed. Nancy Jo had been given my information by Kay Woodcock. I had briefly spoken to Nancy Jo about a month prior, but at that time she was not sure if she wanted to be involved in this investigation. My interview with Nancy Jo was recorded on my digital voice recorder and will be preserved as evidence in this case. The following is a synopsis of my interview with Nancy Jo.

Speaker 1: 5:30

Nancy Jo said she had met Charles at the Keg Restaurant near the San Tan Mall on July 10, 2019. Nancy Jo explained she met Charles through an LDS dating site in early July and they chatted online until they went out on July 10. Nancy said she and Charles spoke via telephone and text messages. After exchanging phone numbers, nancy said Charles was a very upbeat person. Nancy Jo said Charles told her about his split with his wife and Nancy Jo also said that Charles told her that Lori had disappeared for a few months, cancelled his flights, taken his truck, changed his door locks and also drained his bank account. Nancy Jo explained that Charles told her that Lori stated she was preparing for the Second Coming of Christ, which was supposed to happen in July. Nancy Jo said Charles told her Lori said she had angels that would help her kill him if he got in her way. Nancy Jo said Charles said Lori believed she could teleport to other places through a portal in her closet. Nancy said Charles told her Lori believed she was sealed to Moroni in another life and she lived other lives, including notable people in history. Remember Moroni is the Mormon angel, moroni that's at the top of the temples.

Speaker 1: 6:58

I asked Nancy Jo if Charles said anything about how things were going between him and Lori at that time. Nancy Jo said Charles was concerned with JJ being involved in Lori's craziness. Nancy Jo said Charles told him about Lori's teenage daughter, tylee, and how she was rebellious against Lori but was very close to JJ. I asked Nancy Jo if Charles said why he was in town and she said he was in town to see JJ. Nancy Jo said Charles was going to take JJ to school the next morning. Nancy said Charles told her Lori was writing an email from him to other people pretending to be Charles. Nancy explained that Charles discovered the emails and was speaking to Lori's brother, adam, about this. Nancy Jo said Adam had come to town at the same time but she was unsure where from. Nancy Jo said Charles and Adam were supposed to meet on July 11th 2019 after Charles dropped JJ off at school to discuss how to confront Lori about her beliefs that she was a god and here to usher in the second coming of Christ. Nancy Jo said Charles and Adam wanted to get Lori help for those behaviors. Nancy said she and Charles finished dinner at about 2200 hours 10pm and text until about 2300 to 11. Nancy said she sent Charles a text in the morning but she never heard back from him. Nancy Jo talked about their date and their conversation during it.

Speaker 1: 8:33

I asked Nancy Jo if there was anything she thought I should know about her interactions with Charles. Nancy Jo said Charles still had JJ's service dog in Texas and Charles was concerned that Bailey, the service dog, was not with JJ. Nancy Jo said it was hard to believe from what she knew and saw in the media that if Charles struck Alex with a bat, that he would not have injured him more. Nancy Jo said Charles was in very good condition and took good care of himself. I asked Nancy Jo if Charles ever mentioned Lori's brother, alex, and she said that he had.

Speaker 1: 9:10

Nancy Jo said Charles described Lori and Alex's relationship as strange and added that Lori had weird control or power over him. I asked Nancy Jo if Charles said anything to her about his relationship with Alex, and she said they had a fine relationship but it became a little strained since they were getting divorced. Nancy Jo added that Charles believed Lori was having an affair with a Doomsday writer and added that he had found where Lori had emailed videos of her dancing to the writer, who she later named as Chad. I asked Nancy Jo if Charles ever mentioned Chad's name to her or if she learned it from media, and she said she was not sure. Nancy Jo said Charles was not happy about the email he had found that was authored under his name but not by him, to the author. Nancy Jo added that Charles did not like who Lori had become since she started interacting with the author. Nancy Jo said since seeing the media coverage on this case, it was clear Charles was talking about a person who fits Chad's description. Nancy Jo said Charles only wanted Lori to get some help so she could be there for JJ. Nancy Jo said Charles seemed to be very patient with Lori in light of what had been going on.

Speaker 1: 10:29

I asked Nancy Jo if Charles ever mentioned his life insurance policy and she said that he did. Nancy Jo said Charles told her he had changed his beneficiary on the policy. Nancy Jo said she joked with Charles that he should let Lori know that he changed it so she did not kill him for the life insurance policy. Nancy Jo said in hindsight that was not a funny joke. Nancy Jo and I talked about how excited Charles was to go see JJ and spend time with him.

Speaker 1: 10:58

Nancy Jo spoke for a while about how kind and happy Charles was in their interactions. Nancy Jo said Charles never once spoke harshly against Lori, even after all she had done. I asked Nancy Jo if Charles said if he had ever tried to reach out to Chad and she said she could not remember for sure if he had. Nancy Jo said Charles felt there was an inappropriate relationship with each other. Nancy Jo said she still had the text messages between her and Charles and she would go through them to see if there was anything that was important to this case. She would forward them to me.

Speaker 1: 11:33

I then provided Nancy Jo with my contact information and I then concluded my interview with Nancy Jo what a great guy Really, I mean on a date talking about how he wants to help and what his main focus is is JJ. He's worried that Lori's lost his mind interacting with this author, chad, and all he did, even knowing he probably wasn't going to save his marriage all he did was try to help her, and everybody failed him. On the same day, april 22nd 2020, the detective received a voicemail from Christina Christina remember we already had her one interview, christina requesting I call her. So on April 23rd 2020, at 9 30 in the morning, I called Christina back. My conversation with Christina was recorded on my digital voice recorder and will be preserved as evidence in this case. So April 23rd 2020. This is the interview that he had with her over the phone. Christina had called him and requested another call back, so I will play that now.

Speaker 3: 12:57

Today is Thursday, april 23rd 2020, at 9 30 at 9 30 at 8 hours. Detective Moffitt calling Christina in regards to case number 19-83744. She left a voicemail for me yesterday saying she had something to add. She left a voicemail for me yesterday saying she had something to add.

Speaker 4: 13:35

Good morning. This is Christina.

Speaker 3: 13:46

Hi Christina, Detective Mafo with the channel PD, how are you?

Speaker 4: 13:50

I'm fine, thank you.

Speaker 3: 13:52

Hey, I was calling. I got a voicemail from you saying you thought of something else you wanted to add. What's going on?

Speaker 4: 13:59

The day that I was talking about. The last time I seen Lori that I went out to is there wasn't just about her brother. I remember that she had made a comment about crushing up some of her sons what's it called? It sounded like both her husband and her son took it and started to actually, I think, make a comment.

Speaker 3: 14:29

Yeah, you know what, oh dear, who told me that? I can't remember. If it was, I think it was Nicole. Did you know any? Yeah, no, nicole said hey, yeah, because she said I was there. She said Christina and I were there. She said, and that was. She couldn't remember the medication, but she said that she told both of you guys and that was when they were back in Texas, right?

Speaker 4: 14:57

Yes, so when I went back over I just said look, I don't know what's going on with you, but anyway, my one thing was the way that her brother talked about realizing. Also, she made a comment about putting some Xanax in his drink mix, like his protein milk, like shake or something that he was taking.

Speaker 3: 15:19

Okay.

Speaker 4: 15:20

And so I said Lori, are you serious? Did you actually do that? She's like well, I could only put like maybe one or two because it's obvious. But I just he's so hyper and so on top of me and she's like I was just being a smart aleck and it's really not a big deal, and he takes it all the time anyway.

Speaker 3: 15:38

Gotcha.

Speaker 4: 15:39

So I don't know, because she kind of backpedaled on it, if you really did take it to like I don't know, but it sounded like both he and JJ took Xanax.

Speaker 3: 15:48

Okay, good, that's perfect. I was trying to. I forgot to follow up with you on that.

Speaker 4: 15:55

Yeah, so that was all I remember from that surprise. I did that day, but Not a problem, I remember a couple hours after you left.

Speaker 3: 16:02

Yeah, so it just happened upon your doorstep and it was random and out of the blue, so not a problem, but I appreciate you calling and following up with me.

Speaker 4: 16:10

No problem, I appreciate you, the work you're doing.

Speaker 3: 16:12

Thank you, ma'am All right, see ya. Bye, bye.

Speaker 1: 16:21

So Lori was actually putting Xanax in Charles's protein drinks. I think Lori starts to backpedal when people start to question her, but I have no doubt in my mind and my judgmental mind over Lori Vallow DeVal that she actually did that. There's a lot of things that Lori told people and Lori told her friends, things that came out and I heard through the rumor mills and through people that know people, and those things that I was told have never come out in any of these recordings. So a lot of them say well, lori was just like that, lori's Lori. Maybe Lori made it up. We don't know if we really believe Lori.

Speaker 1: 17:08

So was Lori a liar to all her friends all along where they wouldn't necessarily believe all her shenanigans? For example, I know I wrote this up before Lori told one of her friends that she went into Joe Ryan's apartment and took his valuables when he was dead. Now this has never come out, except for it was told to me through somebody that knows Lori very well and then never repeated out there. So who knows with Lori? But that was the same reaction. These people also said well, lori's Lori. You never know with Lori, like Lori could be just telling a big fib. So was Lori a fibber all along. Was there things that she said that you always had to take with the green assault I have so many questions about that and that people just went on with their day? But Lori's just going on with her day and everybody's going on with their day and been like Lori's Lori, even though she told people I put Xanax in my husband's protein drink. I went into my dead ex-husband's house, took his valuables before the police found him. I mean, there's a lot of little weird things like that that just blow my mind. When it comes to Lori and the people that were close to her and how hush-hush they were and how they should have all at least come forward to each other and been like whoa, wait a minute especially makes me so mad because Charles tried so hard for help.

Speaker 1: 18:34

On the next day, which is April 24th 2020, melanie Boudreaux actually makes a post at 5.52 pm and apparently it was her 31st birthday, and she writes on Facebook. Today is my 31st birthday and I couldn't let the day pass without sending out love and gratitude to every single person I know. I don't know if I could ever top last year's birthday of being able to serve in the temple doing 30 ordinances and then spending the day with my children. I don't have that luxury this year, but I am grateful for so much still.

Speaker 1: 19:11

This last year my world has turned upside down as family and friends turn their backs on me when things in the media got confusing. I've been falsely accused of many things, wrongfully judged, betrayed by those who I thought loved and supported me, and wrongfully gone to Utah County jail for a few hours. Worst of all, my four beautiful children have unjustly been kept for me since October. I hold no faults, as fears and doubts have been spread by those trying to hurt me, while I also was unjustly taken away from my mother at age six and told all manner of lies about her. I stand here today, grateful, knowing about her. I stand here today grateful, knowing that no one and no lie can take me away from the bond of my mother, who has laid to rest since I was nine.

Speaker 1: 20:11

It has been a hard lesson to learn that I could not put faith in the court systems, authorities or most people. The Lord has been on my side and he has strengthened me through all of this. No one can take away the peace and truth that he brings, and by this. I know that my children will always know in their hearts who their mother is and that I will be reunited with them. I hope they, like I, can learn how to forgive and love all those who have hurt us. This is only possible through the Savior's atonement. His love is more powerful than anything. This took me a while to learn to forgive my own father, but I have nothing but love and gratitude in my heart this day and for the many who have betrayed me. Even though restitution has not been made, I've learned to endure with patience and to wait upon the Lord, as I know he will reconcile all things. Each day is another day of experience and growth, and I will continue every single day trying to love and serve those around me, as that has brought me more joy than anything in this world could bring.

Speaker 1: 21:25

When you dedicate your life to serving the Lord and accept his will rather than your own, it certainly doesn't always mean things get easier, as I've learned. I'm so grateful for the scriptures that account for so many who went through difficult times, even when they tried to live righteously. This has strengthened my faith in him, and I've witnessed him pouring out blessings. Things are tough right now, with the world at a standstill, but don't ever give up. Don't ever hold a grudge. Don't take for granted the people in your life, whether they are good to you or not. There is so much to learn from them. Everyone will stand accountable at the judgment bar of God one day.

Speaker 1: 22:07

And I know who I am. The few in my life that has stood by me, no matter what, also know who I am, my children being included. I have learned to find joy in any circumstance, even among some of the darkest days, while being separated from my children, being unsupported by my own parents and while having so many untrue things said about me. Truth is truth and I do not care about the opinions, gossiping or accusations of men or news sources. The last few years, I've learned how to forgive all things and love even my enemies. But while on a run today, I felt overwhelmingly feeling of gratitude for all this opposition and for those who have hurt me, and this was something I haven't been able to feel yet. What a beautiful gift from God on this day. All of this has had purpose and helped me to become the person I am today. So use this day to show love towards someone who maybe has hurt you, someone you just haven't been able to forgive yet for things they've done to you, and look for the gratitude and blessings from it. There is freedom in this and so much peace.

Speaker 1: 23:17

I am sure there will be many on my Facebook that no longer wish to hear from me, and that is perfectly okay. You're welcome to delete me now, but I've reactivated my page. I will respond to any messages of love. I will not see any negative posts on here, as I'll have a family member monitoring this post. I'm only here to send out love. Have an amazing day. And to you, braxton, brighton, blake and Breeze, I celebrate you today for how much love I have for you. So on April 25th, justin Lum, an investigative reporter from Fox 10 Phoenix he has been a great source in this whole thing, but he posted that on his Facebook page and he says Melanie turns to Facebook. Lori Balows-Nease turned 31.

Speaker 1: 24:07

On Friday, melanie Pulaski re-activated her Facebook profile and, still using Baudrill as her last name, in the post, she talks about being grateful despite her world turning upside down as family and friends turned their backs on her. She says she has been falsely accused of many things. She mentions going to Utah County Jail for a few hours, but it was wrongful. Pulaski says her four kids have been unjustly kept from her since October. At the end of the post, she sends love to her children. Right now she is in a custody battle with her ex-husband, brandon Boudreau. The last resolution management conference was postponed.

Speaker 1: 24:42

Gilbert police are still investigating the attempt on Brandon's life, a shooting on October 2nd outside his home. Investigators say Brandon's all-rifle with a silencer come out of the rear window of a 2018 Wrangler Jeep a Jeep with Texas license plate registered to Charles Vallow, lori's former husband. And then he recaps saying Charles was shot and killed by her brother, alex, last July in Chandler Court. Documents say that Brandon believed Melanie his wife at the time, had a million dollars of reasons to have him killed, hoping to cash in on the policy to help support the cult that she is believed to be part of. Then it goes on to say you know, alex Cox died on December 12th and his death is still under investigation. At that time, the turnies for Melanie Pulaski have said she has worked with the FBI and given up her electronic devices.

Speaker 1: 25:30

As the search for JJ Vallow and Tylee Ryan, lori's missing children, continues, she denies knowing their whereabouts, despite being accused of having information, I still can't believe how much she's still under the radar and all this stuff. I mean, I don't know if you know what happened at the trial and we'll get to that eventually but she literally purposely wound up at the trial not testifying because she sabotaged it. She broke the rules and the law so she wouldn't have to testify against Lori. She said yep, I've been watching it on TV, yep, I know what's going on in the trial, yep, and they had to let her go and not testify. Thankfully, they didn't need her, but she is a scammer. I will say that from now until the day all this ends. She is a little manipulator, in my honest opinion.

Speaker 1: 26:34

On May 2nd 2020, tammy DeBell's matter of death was changed from natural to undetermined. It's noted in the police FOIA documents. As of May 2nd 2020, I learned of Tammy DeBell's autopsy results and that her manner of death would be changed from natural to undetermined. The medical examiners from Utah and Arizona agreed to maintain contact and the event additional tests could be identified to further test the biological samples. So everybody's getting real wise here. You know Lori's locked up. She's looking, things are looking more and more suspicious. And then we'll wrap today's Up and the End of Season 2 up with this Arizona Family News Report where Kay and Larry have a few things to say about the disappearance of JJ and Tylie and the side of the family Lori's side of the family. Let's listen now.

Speaker 2: 27:36

Dennis Cox and Summer Shiflett levied some pretty harsh accusations against Charles Vallow and his family, and so for that part of the story, we're going to go to Kim Powell with reaction from them.

Speaker 6: 27:51

JJ's grandparents were pretty upset that, after all this time, lori Vallow's family is now speaking up. But as for the allegations that Kay was sending threatening emails to Lori, well, we have a copy of those emails and you can decide for yourself. On August 10th, the month after Charles Vallow was killed at Lori Vallow's Chandler home in a so-called self-defense shooting, kay Woodcock, his sister, sent this email to Lori thanking her for letting them speak to JJ over FaceTime. She goes on to offer flying to Phoenix to spend time with JJ, maybe a trip to the zoo or an arcade. Kay never heard back. Fifteen days later she sent another short email saying I'll do anything in order to see him.

Speaker 5: 28:37

I was trying to keep reaching out to her reaching out to her.

Speaker 1: 28:39

Reaching out to her. Please let me talk to JJ. Let us see JJ.

Speaker 5: 28:44

Whatever it takes, let us see him.

Speaker 6: 28:47

On September 18th, desperation was growing. By now Lori, along with JJ and Tyle, moved to Rexburg, idaho. Kay asked to see him for a weekend. She ends her email with Lori. What are you thinking? Are you even thinking? And on October 14th, a final email is sent saying no need to cut him out of our lives. This situation can be managed civilly, signed with please tell him we love him.

Speaker 5: 29:14

She should have been worried more about being threatened by the police, because I know in every email I sent I think I got ugly one or two times in those emails after a little while I come on. This is enough.

Speaker 6: 29:30

You stop and let's we need to see JJ. Lori's family also claims that they heard JJ on a phone call on October 1st, entirely in late September, slightly off from the timeline that police have Law enforcement is who I believe, the FBI is who I believe, rexburg Police Department is who I believe.

Speaker 7: 29:51

As far as what Summer and Janice said, totally, totally irrelevant. It brings absolutely nothing to this case.

Speaker 6: 30:02

Kay and Larry say they haven't heard from Lori's side of the family throughout the investigation and wonder why now you want to do something.

Speaker 7: 30:11

Call us. Let's sit down. Let's have a meeting. Let's figure out where those kids are. Let's be adults. Let's be a yeah, Please.

Speaker 6: 30:22

The one question that Kay and Larry want answered is simple when are JJ and Tylee? They hope that Lori's family puts pressure on her so they can put an end to all of this. Kim Powell for Arizona's family.

Speaker 1: 30:35

So you can see everybody's getting really frustrated. At this point, it's May of 2020. The kids have been missing since September. It's getting scary, it's getting frustrating. Kay and Larry are advocating for help and Lori's family hasn't even reached out to them. There's still two sides at this point. There's we stand by Lori's side, lori's parents, lori's sister, and there's what do you think? And Lori, where are the kids? By Kay and Larry. So we're going to wrap up season two, episode 19.

Speaker 1: 31:21

I will come back with season three About the first of October. It's not that far away, I promise, and I have a lot going on that I'm just going to get taken care of so we can get going and I can be popping these out weekly when we get to October and stick around and visit us on Left Undone incomplete investigations on YouTube. I will still be popping on there. I have a live stream this weekend. I probably will be taking a little break from Left Undone, but there's hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of videos on Left Undone that you can go back and watch and I will be going on my vacation in just a few weeks, so I got to get tidied up for that and I appreciate you all.

Speaker 1: 32:05

And again, no donations, too small. There are links in the show notes If you would like to donate. If not, please share this podcast. Please tell people about it. That would be absolutely fantastic for me. I do appreciate you, and to tell the story, because it's an important story for sure. So, stay safe, stay well and I will be back soon. I'm Kathy Brooks. Sources for this episode Justin Lum Fox 10 Phoenix, arizona Family. Annie Linux, annie Cushing. I appreciate you. Thanks so much and I will see you soon. Bye-bye.